Welcome to FinanceGrabber’s Good Cash podcast, the place we reply your real-world cash questions. On this episode:
Discover automotive shopping for in 2024, from Carvana’s course of to the electrical car surge and the right way to maximize your automotive’s sale worth.
Budgets Past the Numbers: How do you handle the emotional features of budgeting? What’s the automotive shopping for market like in 2024? Hosts Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayoola talk about private budgeting and the way forward for automotive shopping for that will help you perceive the right way to navigate monetary selections with confidence. They start with a dialogue of budgeting “past the numbers,” with ideas and methods on categorizing bills into their emotional impacts to make budgeting really feel extra private.
In the present day’s Cash Query: Is Carvana service? Do you have to purchase an electrical car for those who’re out there for a brand new automotive? FinanceGrabber autos author Shannon Bradley joins hosts Sean Pyles and Sara Rathner to delve deeper into the way forward for automotive purchases and the electrical car revolution. They discover the evolution of electrical automobiles, the present state of the automotive marketplace for each consumers and sellers, and techniques to get the very best deal when promoting your car. The dialog goals to supply insights on choosing the proper time to purchase an electrical automotive, understanding the market dynamics, and guaranteeing a easy automotive promoting expertise.
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Episode transcript
This transcript was generated from podcast audio by an AI instrument.
What’s in a finances? When you take a look at the 50/30/20 finances, you have got your wants, needs together with additional debt funds and financial savings. However everyone knows a finances will be far more than that. We get into it this episode. Welcome to FinanceGrabber’s Good Cash Podcast, the place we enable you to make smarter monetary selections, one cash query at a time. I am Sean Pyles.
And I am Elizabeth Ayoola.
This episode we reply a pair listeners’ questions on automotive shopping for and promoting, together with what to know concerning the electrical automotive market proper now. However first, we’re exploring what’s actually in a finances past the numbers and Elizabeth, that is one thing that you’re particularly fascinated about, proper?
I’m, Sean, as a result of budgeting will get a nasty rep, however it may be enjoyable too, particularly when you have got one thing you actually need and are working in direction of, however it may be equally demanding. I am not going to disclaim that.
Completely. When folks hear the phrase finances, they could simply take into consideration numbers in a spreadsheet or about limiting themselves from buying one thing that they need. Neither is admittedly enjoyable. And do not get us improper, we’re nonetheless large proponents of getting a finances and we expect the 50/30/20 finances, the place you have got half of your revenue going in direction of wants, 30% going in direction of needs and 20% going in direction of additional debt, funds and financial savings, generally is a actually accessible and versatile framework for most individuals, but it surely does not get to the extra private elements of our funds. So Elizabeth, you want stepping into these deeper elements of a finances and also you do that by breaking it into three basic classes: one thing demanding, one thing thrilling, and one thing complicated. Are you able to discuss why you’re eager about your finances on this method and what is the objective of every class?
So I really feel like by doing this, it provides our finances some persona, it creates some attention-grabbing dialog round our budgets. I believe everyone knows that budgets will be monotonous, so breaking it up like this helps me keep engaged with my finances and now have one thing to really feel enthusiastic about. You already know what I am saying, Sean? So the complicated one particularly is an opportunity for me to problem myself to untangle areas of my finances the place I am winging it or I am simply disorganized and normally I am winging it or disorganized as a result of I am overwhelmed and do not perceive one thing.
This jogs my memory of a recreation that I generally play with my pals referred to as Rose, Thorn, and Bud. The rose is one thing good that occurred to you, the thorn is as you may count on, one thing that is a bit bit thornier or disagreeable and the bud is one thing that’s in progress or one thing that you’re enthusiastic about. That is type of like that, however on your funds, it is a strategy to categorize gadgets of your finances below broader themes, which can assist you course of them in that extra private and emotional method. Is that how you consider it too?
Precisely. You simply put it in a flowery method. Thanks, Sean.
And I even have a brand new recreation that I am enjoying with my pals as a result of I am stealing your concept.
As of latest, I have been asking them after I go on girlfriend dates, what’s one factor they hope occurs this 12 months? However I am undoubtedly going to swap it out on your concept.
Oh, I like that. Properly, to assist our listeners perceive this mind-set about budgeting, Elizabeth, I might love to listen to what you’re discovering demanding, thrilling, and complicated in your finances proper now?
As a recovering over sharer, I’m undoubtedly going to share that. So let’s begin with demanding. Begin with the worst, a transferring finances. So simply please anyone rescue me on a pink carpet and be sure to deliver a margarita with you as a result of transferring is stressing me out. I am making an attempt to make the transfer as cost-effective as potential as a result of it is wanting like I’ll spend a few thousand {dollars} proper now and that is actually hurting my emotions.
Yeah, it is some huge cash.
So now let’s get into the thrilling factor, a love sack. I do not know if any of our listeners otherwise you, Sean, have heard of affection sacks earlier than, however they’re primarily these big beanbags and in my fantasy of dwelling out the Bohemian dream in my family, I’ve one thing like a love sack the place I can learn books and watch Netflix and do no matter else I need to do on it. So I’ve needed one for years, however they’re fairly expensive. They’ll begin across the $900 vary and go as much as a thousand {dollars}, however I’m budgeting for that and I am wanting ahead to it. The one factor I am nervous about is my son placing his Cheeto palms throughout my stuff.
That is a good concern. Additionally, you may need to wait to get that till after you are moved as a result of that will be only one different factor to haul throughout state traces.
Oh reality, I am undoubtedly not shopping for that now, so I’ll purchase it as soon as I transfer. So it is also giving me extra time to save lots of in direction of it or to finances for it. One other thrilling factor I am additionally budgeting for is to go to Nigeria. So I’m Nigerian for the listeners and I have not been since I had my son possibly like 4 or 5 years in the past, and he is been asking me to go. That is type of what impressed the journey, but it surely does price a few thousand {dollars}, so I am budgeting in direction of that as effectively, however excited. And lastly, what’s complicated? Balancing enterprise and private budgets on the similar time could be very complicated for me proper now.
So I am making an attempt to type of determine how a lot to place in direction of retirement saving as a result of my bills simply hold altering and I am additionally making an attempt to make sure that I do not commingle, which is once you’re mixing type of what you are promoting funds together with your private as a result of we do not need the IRS to come back knocking. So all these type of issues are simply complicated and possibly a bit bit demanding as effectively. Then lastly, my son goes to a non-public college in August, so my finances goes to alter. I am making an attempt to not be onerous on myself as a result of I actually like saving large chunks of cash and him going to non-public college may imply I’ve to save lots of much less, but it surely’s all good.
See, I really feel like this actually reveals how your finances is being enacted that will help you meet the brief and long-term life objectives that we discuss a lot on Good Cash and likewise the varied feelings that include assembly your objectives or making an attempt to satisfy them and the compromises which are simply inherent on this dialog you have got with your self and your funds. Additionally, Elizabeth, final week you stated that you simply had been financially boring, and I’ll say that every one of this stuff are attention-grabbing. I am particularly enthusiastic about your journey to Nigeria, so let me understand how that goes. And in addition let me know the place you land in your financial savings when your son begins non-public college.
In fact, I’ll share that with you guys, so be careful for that. It has been so lengthy since we have been to Nigeria, so we’re wanting ahead to it. And personal college, effectively all of the listeners with youngsters know that youngsters swallow up your {dollars}, however I hope to get return on funding on this. So what are yours, Sean? Inform me about your issues which are demanding, thrilling, complicated.
Okay, effectively that is the place I reveal that I’m truly boring. One thing demanding is that I am in the course of a season of journey proper now, which isn’t boring. It’s totally thrilling truly. However I went right down to San Francisco for a live performance a few weeks again and I am about to fly out to the East coast to see some pals in New York and DC and it is going to be nice to see these pals and it was nice to see San Francisco once more the place I lived for a few years, however boy, oh boy, touring could be very costly. It is far more costly than working from residence day in day trip and the adjustment from making my breakfast each morning and having my espresso and a pleasant little ritual for myself, going from that to spending $20 on the sandwich and a espresso each single morning is a bit bit painful and a bit bit demanding for my finances, however I am going to make it work.
After which one thing thrilling, this is likely to be a bit bit untimely as a result of it isn’t truly going to occur for 9 months, however I am getting comparatively near paying off my automotive. I’ve had this automotive mortgage since 2020 and I do know I took an extended automotive mortgage than we sometimes advocate, however that is simply the place my funds had been on the time. And I am type of fortunate to have a fairly inexpensive automotive cost. However I’m additionally very enthusiastic about having that additional $350 that I pay for my automotive every month again in my finances, despite the fact that I’ll doubtless direct most of that into my automotive financial savings bucket. Complicated? To be trustworthy, nothing is simply too complicated for me proper now fortuitously, however as ever, I’m on this continuous dialogue with myself and my ADHD impulses that inform me to purchase random issues that I sincerely don’t want. And what’s helped me not too long ago to shake myself from shopping for issues on-line is simply asking what do I count on this factor to do for me? And the reply is normally nothing significant. In order that helps me break the spell.
Oh, I like that. And I can relate with you re ADHD. I believe in a earlier episode I advised y’all that I used to be emotional shopping for and I am so glad to replace y’all that that has stopped.
Thanks. No extra random Zara retailers each different week. So I have been doing fairly good and I can perceive what you are saying, re journey as a result of I’ve a lot of upcoming journeys as effectively and it is so costly. However Sean, I am excited concerning the automotive. $350 a month sounds actually good to do one thing else with. And that is about how a lot my cost is simply too. So I’ll faucet into your pleasure and hopefully I might be there subsequent 12 months.
Manifesting that for us, sure. Properly listener, I hope this train has helped you consider your personal finances in a brand new method. Earlier than we get into this episode’s cash query section, let’s examine in on our nerdy query of the month, which is what’s your bizarre cash behavior, habits, or precept that you simply dwell by?
Here is one bizarre cash behavior {that a} listener texted us. I simply listened to your podcast of an individual with dozens of bank cards. I am a kind of people too. To be clear although, the one balances I carry are these on short-term 0% promo provides and ones which are paid off month-to-month. My system is to hold 5 to 6 playing cards in my pockets and rotate them, then return these playing cards to the underside of my residence bank card stack. One other facet gig pastime I do is getting into sweepstakes on-line day by day. It is a straightforward however thrilling exercise that may result in shock winnings at any given time. My largest win to this point is $24,000 minus taxes, in fact. That is a big chunk of money.
Oh, that is an attention-grabbing one. Thanks for sharing that. So listener, tell us: what’s your bizarre cash behavior? Do you solely use money for your whole transactions or are you a hardcore bank card level maximizer?
Or possibly you have got 10 billion financial institution accounts like Sean. Okay, he simply has 10. It is not 10 billion, it is simply 10.
I did not actually suppose that was bizarre till not too long ago. I used to be speaking with a pal who was contemplating getting her very first excessive yield financial savings account, and he or she checked out me like I had two heads after I talked about that I’ve 10 accounts. So possibly that is additionally a great way to consider this. What’s one thing that you simply do together with your funds that appears possibly completely regular to you, however everybody else round you thinks is a bit bit off? We need to know.
Sure, we do. So inform us your bizarre cash behavior by texting us or leaving a voicemail on the Nerd hotline at (901) 730-6373. That is (901) 730-N-E-R-D. Or you possibly can e mail us a voice memo at [email protected].
And whilst you’re at it, ship us your cash questions too. We all know how complicated cash will be and we need to enable you to make smarter monetary selections. And a fast reminder that we’re operating one other e book giveaway sweepstakes forward of our Nerdy E-book Membership episode.
Our subsequent membership visitor is Jake Cousineau, writer of Learn how to Grownup: Private Finance for the Actual World. The e book provides tricks to younger folks on the right way to get began with managing their cash.
To enter for an opportunity to win our e book giveaway, ship an e mail to [email protected] with the topic ‘e book sweepstakes’ through the sweepstakes interval. Entries should be obtained by 1159 P.M. Pacific Time on Might seventeenth. Embrace the next data: your first and final title, e mail handle, zip code, and cellphone quantity. For extra data, please go to our official sweepstakes guidelines web page. All proper, now let’s get into this episode’s cash query section with our co-host, Sara Rathner, after a fast break, stick with us.
We’re again and answering your cash questions that will help you make smarter monetary selections. This episode we’re taking over a pair questions on automobiles, the right way to purchase and promote them, and the way electrical automobiles slot in. And we’re joined by FinanceGrabber autos author Shannon Bradley to assist us navigate the winding roads of automotive shopping for in 2024. Shannon, welcome again to Good Cash.
Thanks for having me again. Let’s get to the primary listener’s query. This comes from a voicemail.
Hiya. The explanation I am calling is we had been questioning what do you consider the corporate Carvana? We’re eager about promoting our car to them as a result of if we possibly attempt to promote it at a automotive dealership or one thing, we’re not likely pondering that we’ll get deal for it. However we do not know so far as us promoting a car to them, not us buying one from them, in the event that they’re respected on the subject of that. We have by no means used them.
So Shannon, are you able to begin by giving us a fast rationalization of how Carvana works?
Yeah. Carvana is a web-based solely automotive retailer they usually promote and purchase used automobiles solely. Additionally they take trade-ins. And based mostly upon the listener’s query, I believe crucial factor is that you would be able to request a proposal on your automotive proper on the Carvana web site so long as it is a 1992 mannequin or newer. And it is a fairly easy course of. They are going to ask you on your 17 digit car identification quantity, extra generally referred to as your VIN, or your license plate quantity. They are going to ask you for mileage, the car situation, car choices, after which when you’ve got a mortgage or a lease on the automotive, they will ask you for details about that too.
So aside from Carvana’s iconic automotive merchandising machines that you simply see dotting the panorama in numerous cities, what makes it completely different from going to a dealership or to CarMax?
Properly, let’s discuss CarMax first. CarMax is a web-based retailer too, they usually’re similar to Carvana. I believe one of many largest variations once you promote your automotive between the 2 is the way you get your automotive to the retailer. With Carvana, you possibly can finalize your complete sale remotely. They are going to come to your home, they will decide up your automotive, do the inspection there. You do need to be inside one in every of their service areas, and there may very well be a small charge relying upon how far you’re from their hub. CarMax, alternatively, they provide pickup, however solely at restricted places in 4 states.
So greater than doubtless you are going to need to take your automotive to a CarMax retailer for inspection. And relying upon the place you reside, that may very well be fairly a distance. So for those who evaluate most of these on-line retailers to a dealership, I believe two of the most important variations are comfort and having the ability to negotiate what’s provided on your automotive. Once more, with Carvana, you possibly can doubtlessly full your complete strategy of promoting your automotive proper from your property, however once you get a proposal from Carvana or CarMax, it isn’t negotiable. Whereas for those who promote to a dealership, you possibly can try to barter that provide.
So automotive shopping for and promoting is a notoriously irritating course of. Are there any widespread complaints about how Carvana handles this course of that possibly are distinct from different methods of shopping for and promoting a automotive?
On the promoting facet, I am not conscious of too many complaints. In reality, it was type of humorous, over the weekend I had a pal on Fb ask this very query, and so I used to be monitoring responses of individuals they usually had been saying that it was a quick and straightforward course of to promote their automotive to Carvana. On the shopping for facet, I believe the factor is, you must keep in mind that once you purchase a automotive from Carvana, you possibly can’t take a look at drive it, you possibly can’t examine it. And now and again, I’ve heard of individuals receiving a automotive that they did not really feel actually matched what was represented on-line. However I believe the factor to remember there may be that Carvana provides a seven-day money-back assure with a restrict of 400 miles. So once you get your automotive, simply take that point to essentially take a look at drive it and get a really thorough inspection achieved.
So folks go together with Carvana as a result of it looks like a very easy method to purchase or promote a automotive and you’ll doubtlessly simply have the automotive dropped off at your entrance door. However that does not imply that you simply nonetheless do not need to do your due diligence after which get that inspection to ensure the automotive is pretty much as good as they’re telling you it’s.
Sure, precisely. They are going to assist you to, I believe return as much as three automobiles. There’s some leeway there. After which the opposite factor that I used to be simply going to say, as a result of I believe lots of people have heard about this as a result of there was numerous media protection about it. This was in late 2022, early 2023, there was a problem with Carvana consumers. They’d purchase a automotive, they did not get their title in a well timed method, and they also could not even register and drive the automobiles. And that is one thing that our autos group has been monitoring. It does not appear to be the difficulty that it has a 12 months in the past, however we nonetheless advocate for folks to ask for proof of title. It is simply given that there have been points a 12 months and a half in the past, it is simply not a nasty concept to try this.
So our listener, like so many others, is fascinated about getting deal when promoting their automotive. Do we all know if locations like Carvana supply higher or worse offers than different locations the place you possibly can promote your automotive?
Properly, once you evaluate Carvana to CarMax, I would say that is type of a toss-up. I believe rather a lot is determined by the car you are promoting. Is it one which the retailer wants of their stock at the moment? And whether it is, they might be extra inclined to make you a greater supply, however that is why it is so necessary to get multiple supply. And then you definitely requested about dealerships. Historically you will get extra promoting your automotive to a person, however in fact that is not going to be as straightforward as promoting to somebody who’s going to come back proper to your door and decide it up and even having the ability to go to the dealership down the highway, however dealerships, their provides are typically the bottom. However once more, it is determined by the automotive that you simply’re promoting. Proper now we’re seeing that each new and used automobiles are low stock for Toyota. So when you’ve got a sort of automotive {that a} vendor is admittedly needing on their lot, you could possibly negotiate a greater deal.
So the automotive market has been on a wild journey over the previous few years, actually for the reason that pandemic started. So what’s the automotive market wanting like proper now each for consumers and sellers?
Properly, I might say wild journey is type of an understatement. As somebody who’s been masking the automotive marketplace for the final three years, it has been a wild journey. It isn’t again to the place it was earlier than the pandemic. However from a automotive purchaser side, a number of issues are enhancing. For one, stock is returning to regular. And truly you have got some auto producers who’ve overshot and are overstocked and people specific producers, they’re beginning to supply incentives once more. We’re listening to you could possibly negotiate beneath the producer’s advised retail worth, which was actually remarkable through the pandemic. After which on the draw back, everyone knows how car costs are nonetheless excessive. I believe truly this morning I noticed that the typical transaction worth for a brand new car remains to be at $47,000. That is not small change by any means.
However yow will discover offers on the market, particularly for those who’re versatile about what you are shopping for. After which leasing has some good offers. And for those who purchase or lease an EV proper now, you would qualify for the federal tax credit score of as much as $7,500 on prime of the opposite incentives which are on the market.
So how about sellers within the present local weather? How are issues in search of people who find themselves promoting their automotive proper now?
Properly, I might say they are not faring fairly in addition to the consumers. Relies on what you are promoting, however for those who recall, through the pandemic the car scarcity meant that people had been truly promoting their automobiles for lots greater than they paid for them. And with automotive provides returning to regular for many producers, promoting is not what it was through the pandemic. You should not anticipate an enormous revenue like we had been seeing up to now a number of years, however it’s best to count on to obtain a good worth and you are able to do that by researching the present market worth of your automotive.
So how can folks get essentially the most cash for his or her car?
Properly, I am going again to analysis. Analysis is vital. If I used to be promoting my automotive proper now, I undoubtedly would not put all of my eggs in a single basket. When you get just one supply, which is one thing lots of people do, they simply do not need to take the time to get multiple supply, you will not ever know if there was a greater supply on the market. And the factor is, these days, it is simple to do your analysis. You may have on-line pricing guides the place yow will discover estimates like Edmunds or Kelley Blue E-book. And as we have been discussing, you possibly can request precise provides from websites like Carvana, CarMax or TrueCar. And there is not any price or obligation to try this. One thing we not too long ago launched at FinanceGrabber, we will additionally make a proposal in your automotive. We now have FinanceGrabber Automotive and yow will discover that once you Google FinanceGrabber purchase my automotive.
Alrighty. Properly now let’s flip to the following query, which comes from a listener’s textual content message. They wrote, what’s the gas of the long run? I have been researching about shopping for a brand new automotive they usually’re saying that automobiles sooner or later are going to be electrical, but when there is a new gas of the long run, ought to I simply wait till the brand new gas comes out or simply purchase an electrical automotive now? So Shannon, for those who do not thoughts, please deliver out your crystal ball or business analysis and inform us is there a brand new gas of the long run or does it appear to be electrical automobiles are the automotive vitality of the approaching years?
Properly, we’re listening to rather a lot about analysis of various various fuels like pure gasoline, propane, or hydrogen gas cells, which is admittedly simply one other method of producing electrical energy. However these are all actually of their early levels of improvement and adoption. So whereas I believe improvement of varied methods to decrease car emissions will certainly proceed, my crystal ball says that within the close to future, the emphasis will nonetheless be on EVs.
And is that as a result of EVs have simply been round longer and have a bonus out there over these different gas sorts?
Sure, Sarah, it’s. Many individuals do not understand that the primary electrical automobiles had been truly launched within the late 1800s, then they type of fell by the wayside and curiosity renewed within the Seventies. So it is truly taken a very long time for us to achieve a degree the place electrical energy is accepted as a gas supply because it’s turning into as we speak. In line with Kelley Blue E-book, EVs symbolize the quickest rising automotive gross sales class, and final 12 months almost 1.2 million U.S. car consumers went electrical. We do not count on that tempo to decelerate with federal and state laws in addition to so many automotive makers devoting many sources to the transition to EVs. I simply do not see a fast pivot to different gas sources which are going to take extra time to construct that infrastructure and to construct that adoption price.
So the EV market has been growing quickly over the previous few years, however many anxieties that would-be consumers may need round electrical automobiles like vary, affordability, discovering chargers are fairly persistent. Have any of those points gotten higher?
They’ve gotten higher. For comparability, earlier than 2016, once you’re vary, the median vary of a brand new EV was beneath 100 miles and the highest performing choice could not journey 300 miles and not using a cost. In the present day you should purchase an EV that has a 250-mile vary for lower than $40,000 and the high-end fashions can have a spread of greater than 400 miles per cost. Once you’re speaking concerning the charging infrastructure, that is enhancing too. We now have about 60,000 charging stations throughout the nation, and that is greater than twice the quantity that we had 5 years in the past. And there are numerous incentives on the market to assist with putting in residence chargers, like from some auto producers or your native electrical firm.
What concerning the worth of those automobiles? EVs are typically dearer than gasoline powered automobiles. Is that this altering?
That is enhancing too. I believe the Tesla worth drops have pushed different automotive makers to observe swimsuit. There are numerous EV incentives on the market to assist cut back the fee. As I stated earlier, you would qualify for the federal tax credit score of as much as $7,500 and that may normally be stacked with different incentives from automotive producers, state and native authorities and electrical firms. The U.S. Division of Power truly has a web site, yow will discover it by looking out various fuels U.S. Division of Power, that has a database the place you possibly can analysis all the numerous incentives which are accessible. Late final 12 months, I talked to somebody who was an EV purchaser in California and he used a number of incentives to knock $8,000 off the worth of a Chevy Bolt. After which proper now there are numerous EV leasing offers, and that is a fantastic choice for those who’re somebody who simply is not positive that you simply need to go forward and purchase an EV proper now.
Okay. So Shannon, I’ve to ask you, as a client and likewise somebody who writes about these items rather a lot, how are you eager about electrical automobiles? Have you ever made the leap or are you planning to?
I have not made the leap but, but it surely is not as a result of I do not need one. I am fairly frugal with my cash and I purchased a gas-powered automotive proper earlier than the pandemic, so I used to be in a position to purchase it earlier than automotive costs skyrocketed. And I am in a lucky place proper now the place I am now not supporting youngsters. I used to be receiving, like everybody, stimulus funds throughout COVID, so I used to be in a position to pay down that automotive and I truly haven’t got a automotive cost proper now. I’m environmentally acutely aware. So I believe that finally I’ll purchase or lease an EV, however for proper now, I am having fun with taking a trip from automotive funds and placing that cash into my retirement financial savings.
Properly, that does sound like a really sensible monetary resolution. I am going to say that. Properly, Shannon, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us on Good Cash.
Properly, thanks for having me.
And that’s all we’ve got for this episode. Bear in mind, listener, we’re right here for you and your cash questions. So when you’ve got something that you really want the Nerds that will help you out with, name us or textual content us on the Nerd hotline at (901) 730-6373. That is (901) 730-N-E-R-D. You too can e mail us at [email protected]. Additionally go to nerdwallet.com/podcast for more information on this episode. And keep in mind to observe, price and evaluation us wherever you are getting this podcast. This episode was produced by Tess Vigeland who additionally helped with enhancing. Sara Brink blended our audio. And an enormous thanks to FinanceGrabber’s editors for all their assist.
And this is our transient disclaimer, we’re not monetary or funding advisors. The nerdy data is supplied for basic instructional and leisure functions and will not apply to your particular circumstances.
And with that stated, till subsequent time, flip to the Nerds.